Is anyone actually surprised by this?
This article is what US propaganda looks like folks. Mashable should be ashamed.
Literally all AI companies do this to run their services. Except you can actually download Deepseek and run it completely securely on your own devices. You know who doesn’t allow that security? OpenAI and the other US companies currently being screwed.
as opposed to OpenAI which also stores keystrokes and then sells them to anyone who’d pay?
Did the American technology giants think they had the monopoly on capturing human input too?
My gym sock captures human input too.
That’s human output surely?
I input it into the sock.
the company states that it may share user information to "comply with applicable law, legal process, or government requests.
Literally every company’s privacy policy here in the US basically just says that too.
Not only does DeepSeek collect “text or audio input, prompt, uploaded files, feedback, chat history, or other content that [the user] provide[s] to our model and Services,” but it also collects information from your device, including “device model, operating system, keystroke patterns or rhythms, IP address, and system language.”
Breaking news, company with chatbot you send messages to uses and stores the messages you send, and also does what practically every other app does for demographic statistics gathering and optimizations.
Companies with AI models like Google, Meta, and OpenAI collect similar troves of information, but their privacy policies do not mention collecting keystrokes. There’s also the added issue that DeepSeek sends your user data straight to Chinese servers.
They didn’t use the word keystrokes, therefore they don’t collect them? Of course they collect keystrokes, how else would you type anything into these apps?
In DeepSeek’s privacy policy, there’s no mention of the security of its servers. There’s nothing about whether data is encrypted, either stored or in transmission, and zero information about safeguards to prevent unauthorized access.
This is the only thing that seems disturbing to me, compared to what we’d like to expect based on the context of what DeepSeek is. Of course, this was proven recently in practice to be terrible policy, so I assume they might shore up their defenses a bit.
All the articles that talk about this as if it’s some big revelation just boil down to “company does exactly what every other big tech company does in America, except in China”
Collecting keystrokes is very different from collecting text inputted into fields. Keystroke rhythms is even more alarming as that is often used to identify users despite them using privacy settings, or used to collect what’s typed via audio collection.
Your argument that this is no different than other apps is complete crap. Don’t trust any app that collects that information
The argument stands, though.
Yes, not ALL other apps do that, but the comment was specifically talking about companies like Google and Meta… they definitely do collect incomplete strings from search forms (down to individual characters) when they display search suggestions, for example. They might not mention “keystrokes” in the legal text, but I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to extrapolate your typing pattern since they do have the timing information which should be enough data to, at some level, profile it.
Keystrokes don’t have to be in a text field or input. That’s my point.
If I’m on say google. And I type anything into the field it’s definitely capturing it. You know this for no other reason then it would have to be with autocomplete as an option.
Keystroke capturing is the same as keylogging, aka anything typed even if it’s not into a place where you would assume it’s being seen by the app. Aka, if I had an app open in the background and was typing in my password, it would see and capture that.
They’re completely different things. While the privacy issues of US large tech companies are abundant and awful, there is a large difference between keystroke capturing and capturing input via fields. Especially when you’re agreeing to allow them to process and transfer or even sell that information.
But that’s not what the terms on both Google/Meta and Deepseek say.
There’s no term in their ToS saying Google/Meta restricts the data collection to forms, which means that if the ToS allowed them to collect them from forms (and as you admitted, we do know for a fact that they do), then it also allows them to collect it outside of forms. The reason I put the search suggestions as example is because it’s one we CAN know (and thank you for agreeing on that), but that doesn’t mean they don’t do other captures at times we DON’T know… and also it’s not the only place, Google owns several captcha mechanisms and capturing input patterns is common on those too (and captchas capture outside forms too!). Another obvious example is Google docs, another is Google translate… and again, those are only the obvious ones, we don’t know if there are non-obvious ones.
In the other direction too, Deepseek terms don’t say it does it outside of forms either. You are jumping into assumptions by saying it acts the same as a traditional keylogger and that the keystrokes are captured for “anything typed”. For all we know the only place they might be capturing is when the user is in very specific steps of the login process, maybe for captcha purposes too, or specific forms for preloading results, etc. There’s no reason you should trust they do it any less/more than Google/Meta does, the ToS in both have the same lack of information in that respect.
You can only make assumptions one way or the other, since the terms are not specific on what exactly they allow themselves to do, in the case of Google/Meta they’re so sneaky that they avoid saying they do capture them (even though they do, as you yourself admitted), while in the case of Deepseek, even though they are a bit more specific by using the word “keystrokes”, they also don’t specify where/when/why (other than “to give you a seamless log-in experience and for security purposes” …but that’s also unclear wording).
“We store the information we collect in secure servers located in the People’s Republic of China”
Now you Americans know how we Europeans feel when Google, Amazon and Facebook store our information on American servers. Hint: The protective wall between Chinese servers and their government are about as good as the one between American servers and their government - at least for non-US citizens. The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
The last thin veil of privacy for Eurpeans has been ripped to shreds by Trump last week.
What did he do? I know Trump does not like the GDPR, but did he sign something affecting it last week?
He killed the EU-US Data Privacy Framework. Theoretically, no company is allowed to transfer data of European citizens to US-based servers anymore. Sadly, Ursula von der Leyen is lacking the balls to act on this.
Thanks, I did not know. I think you are referring to this: https://www.freevacy.com/news/noyb/trumps-actions-to-dismantle-pclob-threatens-eu-us-data-transfers/6088
To be completely honest… as an European I would be happy if they actually did make it so that no EU-US data transfer were allowed… we need to stop depending on all these US-based services… but like you said, they probably don’t have the balls to pull the plug. Which makes me wonder if that board was actually really any protection at all for privacy or it had always been an empty shell used as an excuse on both sides just to keep up appearances and maintain the plug on.
I honestly think this could be a win for us. Worst case scenario, nothing really changes but some masks fall off and at least some people would stop acting under false pretense (which could open the doors for change). So I’m actually glad he did that.
I’m confused. Isn’t “collecting keystroke data” just an alarmist way to describe text entry?
Maybe. They could also be doing things like paying attention to input cadence and typos/pre-send typo corrections to use as part of a fingerprint associated with the identifying information a user gives them when creating an account so that they can then attempt to detect the user elsewhere on the web whether they are using an identifying account or not.
This argument applies to literally every single web app you use.
So, basically using Facebook technology in their AI app?
You’ll hear no arguments from me on that point, US tech companies are toxic af.
How far we’ve come
This is the full paragraph:
We collect certain device and network connection information when you access the Service. This information includes your device model, operating system, keystroke patterns or rhythms, IP address, and system language. We also collect service-related, diagnostic, and performance information, including crash reports and performance logs. We automatically assign you a device ID and user ID. Where you log-in from multiple devices, we use information such as your device ID and user ID to identify your activity across devices to give you a seamless log-in experience and for security purposes.
It looks to me that they are using it to identify the user uniquely, maybe also related to captcha to prevent bots (it’s common practice to capture mouse and keyboard while resolving captchas to see if the movement is human-like).
Looks like there are more things I need to start randomizing and injecting with noise.
this. i mean, the session logs for the prompt are kept at least for your user, right?
Not exactly. Timing between key presses can be used to identify people.
I am literally so paranoid I regularly vary my keysteoke rhythms and explore polyrhytmic techniques to create variations. Not even joking.
lol no. only the sounds of the keys can identify the keyboard’s model
The goal is not to identify keyboard model. The goal is to identify person. And people tend to have something called habbits.
the chance of this is almost zero. if you are a dangerous cybercriminal, they will track your device down by a networking solution, wait until you leave it unattended and install a hardware-based spy device and capture evidence. No fbi agent will removed around with keyboard sounds or movie bs like that
with keyboard sounds
Ok, I see you are intentionally going in circles.
Not usually. Keystroke info is different than text input, like if you didn’t click onto any field and typed it would only be captured if keystroke are all being grabbed. It’s especially scary if you keep the app running in the bg and then type something and it still captures it. Not saying they’re doing that, but the privacy policy says they might.
The rhythm part is annoying, it’s commonly used to ID people even through things like ad blocks and dns blocks. Could also (in theory) be used to capture what people are typing just by hearing how they type.
Yes.
They should store the data in US servers like OpenAI does. Apparently then Mashable won’t write an article about it.
The criticism thrown at DeepSeek in the past days is just as applicable to American AI models. But when that was brought up it in the past it was “making things political”.
At least I can run DeepSeek locally.
Oh my, just wait until you learn what Facebook and Google do…
Just host it yourself?
It’s a chinese company, where else would they store the data?
The balls.
I think its called a data lake, so they don’t “store” it, its rather floating around there 🤪
These lakes are formed when the cloud is saturated and gives us data precipitation.
thanks for the great picture 👍
so here is the current cloud clima forecast:
The saturated clouds will rain into the data lakes that are already overspilling here and there into the ransomstreams already taking all soil in their way with them. During the day there will be security clouds preventing from visible rain only while during the night those same security clouds rain themselves all collected data to their homelake while their homelake security already is corrupted and spills over regulary.
As soon as the fort-cisc-pal-ocstricken-redm-ondams breach it’ll gonna have floods with multi-exabyte waveheights and the ripples of the release will be felt over to far east china and the currents will circulate around the world multiple times causing damage and devastation in their wake around the world and eventually even reach connected orbit.
The floods will have the potential to also wash away and /or drown or choke all the big tech dinosaurs. Only small foss mammals and deep sea amphibics will survive this historic event.
… you kinda asked for it 😉 same as “they” kinda asked for it too. 🤔
Antarctica, clearly.
Chinese company does what American companies have done for 25+ years now!
Is it time for REAL data privacy laws or are we just gonna keep playing whack-a-mole with Chinese tech companies that get us nowhere?
Our data’s just too valuable for these parasites. Data privacy laws may eventually pass to compel software companies to store everything in US servers only.
Excellent Point. If that’s the case though, then wouldn’t other countries follow suit which still limits big tech’s reach and makes them less profitable and less powerful? Idk. Guess we’ll see how it plays out. Either way, I’m staying as far from those ecosystems as possible to at least try to mitigate some of what they do. I’ll never be totally successful, genie is put of the bottle, but we can at least attempt.
Yeah, uh… If you think that American companies aren’t doing this same thing and handing your data over to the government without a warrant among other bad uses, I have some bad news for you. This is pretty much par for the course, and I’m pretty sure that we’re witnessing a well financed negative media blitz happening to try and keep OpenAI from getting all of its spaghetti spilled. Watch for the government to try and ban deepseek for “national security” reasons soon.
Not gonna happen. Someone in China gave to Trump’s inauguration fund, so nothing’s getting banned.
Yes, I’m going to be lectured on privacy by people who are still on twitter.
I swear people do not understand how the internet works.
Anything you use on a remote server is going to be seen to some degree. They may or may not keep track of you, but you can’t be surprised if they are. If you run the model locally, there is no indication it is sending anything anywhere. It runs using the same open source LLM tools that run all the other models you can run locally.
This is very much like someone doing surprised pikachu when they find out that facebook saves all the photos they upload to facebook or that gmail can read your email.
The telephone company knows your phone number!
